>> good to have you with us tonight. folks, thanks for watching. almost 24 hours ago, president obama called for a change in this country. now, it's up to all of us to make sure changes come to pass. the community of newtown connecticut is still deeply mourning the lives of 26 people, 20 of them children. the president struck an almost impossible balance of heartfelt emotion and out rage. clearly, president obama feels the weight of the moment. no american can relive the horror of this. >> we can't tolerate this anymore. these tragedies must end. and to end them, we must change. we will be told that the causes of such violence are complex and that is true. no single law, no set of laws

can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society. but that can't be an excuse for an action. surely, we can do better than this. >> this is a moment in history where an event alters the direction of a country and moves lawmaker fos unity. diane feinstein was the first to announce an update on an assault weapons ban which she introduced in congress and will introduce it early next year. >> i intend to introduce a bill. and i intend one way or another, no matter how long it takes, to get that bill through. there's one thing i'm sure of. that in the absence of doing something, that is sound, that is practical, that is workable, these incidents are not going to stop. i've watched them now since the texas bell tower in 1967.

>> feinstein was author of the weapons ban which was allowed to expire under george w. bush. it would include semi-automatic rifles, handguns and shotguns. it bans devices capable of carrying more than ten rounds of ammunition. it also exempts more than 900 specific weapons. it's not a ban on all guns. it's a ban on unnecessary guns. today, senator frank loutenburg of new jersey also introduced a plan to ban the sale of high-capacity magazines. senator pat leah yrksz of the senate judiciary committee says he will hold hearings on gun safety issues early next year. democratic lawmakers were holding action. the mayor of chicago where an insidious 5,000 people have been killed by gun violence since 2001. he spoke about turning on the

pressure for tougher laws. >> it's time that we as a city, a state, a country get backed up and say we support our men and women in law enforcement community and then not have the laws on the books that help you do your job every day. and it's time, as a city, we have an assault weapon ban. >> it's time we, as a state, have an assault weapon ban. it's time we as a country have an assault weapon ban. and i would hope that the leadership in congress would now have a vote of conscious. >> members of congress are feeling the pressure. some pro-gun senators understand things need to change. senator harry reid of nevada has received some stellar grades from the national rifle association, despite being democrats. he said every idea should be on the table. senator warner told the washington post there's got to

be a way to put reasonable ideas on the table. senator manchin is one of the nra's brightest stars on capitol hill. the nra endorsed him in his 2010 west virginia senate race. manchin filled a campaign ad where he filed a bullet through the copy of the cap and trade bill. now manchin is open to the snat tor's bill. >> i believe it's time for all of us to sit down and look at the bill. if diane is saying basically assault weapons, i don't know anyone in the sporting or hunting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. i don't know anybody that needs 30 rounds in a clip to go hunting. >> okay, it's encouraging to see so many lawmakers speaking forcely about the need for change. but it's frustrating to know that we've been down this road before, a 1989 -- 1989 -- shooting led to the first assault weapons ban.

but here we are. no ban is in place today. the kbun industry couldn't be happier or more profitable. and no ban is there. so they can give us wonderful stuff like this. this is a drum-style magazine from an assault rifle, just like the one the newtown shooter used. it can hold up to 90 bullets at a time. let me read you a description of this product from a gun product that we won't bother the name so we won't give you any publicity. ultrahigh capacity for increased shooting funnel. ultrahigh capacity drum style mag sooenl allows extended shooting springs and plenty of shooting fun with your favorite ar-15 or m-16 rifle. i ask you tonight, what purpose does this serve in a increased shooting fun? those words should make your blood boil.

the nra has spent billions of dollars lobbying for these weapons manufacturers. and the gun makers convinced people to go ahead and buy them with ads like this. consider your man card reissued, it says. black friday gun sales broke records across the country. keep in mind, these weapons are being sold to a population where 40% of all gun buyers are not required to undergo background checks. well, the nra sells people on buying these weapons and then convinces people that their freedom is going to be taken away from them. i want them to tell the people of newtown connecticut just how fun this is. i want elected leaders to explain how much fun this past weekend has been for the entire country. some people are calling this the

tipping point. i think we're well beyond that. the tip of the spear is you. the american people. lawmakers need to fear and cower in front of voters. we need real change in this country. we need to get on the phone, as americans, with every e leblgted official who is opposed an assault weapons ban and tell them you will not get my vote. as the plt said, we can no longer sit back and do nothing. >> are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage? that the politics are too hard? are we prepared to say that such violence visited our children year after year after year is somehow the priesz of our freedom? >> we are the people. we are the constitution. we can shape this country to whatever image we want. the change and the time is now

coming close together. the time for change is right now. get your cell phones out, i want to know what you think. tonight's question, will you support any politician who doesn't support reasonable gun laws? text a for yes, text b for now. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. joining me now is michael eric dyson, msnbc political analyst and professional at georgetown, university. doctor, good to have you with us. >> thank you, sir. >> will we finally see changes? i'm going to be harsh on lawmakers. their number one concern is goating reelected. is this that moment in time they're focused on doing what's right? >> i think so. i hope so. and i pray so, ed. think this is a convergence of a historic period in time where finally, people who have been ardent supporters and advocates for the second amendment get some common sense.

that you don't need clips, strips and drums of the magnitude you talked about, of that high a capacity to go out and hunt. there's no justification on earth for us to be able to retain this kind of assault weapon ri in defense of our second amendment rights and, ostensib ostensibly, for the purposes of hunting. so with that put on the table, and even as you've shown, some conservative republicans and some democrats who have been receiving great grade from the nra have finally come to their senses. the nra lobby must not be allowed to be a shadow goovt. what we've essentially done is to pay deference to the nra to be able to gain our credentials as citizens who are card-carrying defenders of the constitution and the second amendment. no more. the death of those children in newtown, the death of children in chicago, detroit, philadelphia, new york, the death of children across this country is enough to say to us we must end all of this madness, come to the table and i think politicians finally get that.

>> can the nra, can the influence of this organization, which has intimidated lawmakerings for years, thrown money at people that they don't want to see in the congress because they want to protect all of this fear mongering that they do. can they finally be defeated by this public outrage? i think that's where we are right now. it's good thing there's not an election tomorrow, the nra would be in serious trouble. but it's the fear mongering that they've done. can the public finally overcome that? >> i think so. but let's not undervalue them, so to speak, or at least let's not underestimate them. we know that the nra is laying in the cut. they know better to come forward because they know that feelings are tender, that the national conscious has been sered. they know that people are outraged and fed up with all of this madness and bologna. they're going to be waiting for the right time to reemerge and say look, all of us lament and mourn these children.

they will be putting forth arguementeds saying if teachers are better armed, if people in the schools are better armed, then we'll be able to take care of our own. studies have been done. we neglect our own academic scholar ly insight. we've got to put that on the table and fight the nra. but i think we've galvanized enough unified voices here to say to the nra you will not cower us. we will not be intimidated by you. and i think that poll tixzs finally have gotten that message as well. >> well, there's a lot of components that go into this gun violence in america. we'll explain more of them later on in this broadcast. but i cannot let anyone off the hook who says that they think that guns should be in the schools. the teachers, the administrators, they're not professional firearm handlers. that's not why they went to college. he didn't go to college to do this kind of stuff. if you want to put cops in the

schools, that's a totally different i. scenario. but to call on an administrator or a teacher to be armed is absolutely outrageous. great to have you with us tonight. share your thoughts with us on twitter at "ed show" and facebook. coming up, mie mayor michael bloomberg, his organization, mark glaze about bloomberg's call to action on gun control. later, i'm getting a lot of reaction from my commentary on friday night about gun activists hiding behind the second amendment. i'll respond to my detractors tonight. stay with us. we'll be right back. nope. am i on this one? no, no, no, no, no. i am on this one. [ male announcer ] for every 2 pounds you lose through diet and exercise alli can help you lose one more

by blocking some of the fat you eat. simple. effective. belt-friendly. let's fight fat with alli. have a healthier holiday at letsfightholidayfat.com.

have a healthier holiday try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. boproductivity up, costs down, thtime to market reduced... those are good things.

upstairs, they will see fantasy. not fantasy... logistics. ups came in, analyzed our supply chain, inventory systems... ups? ups. not fantasy? who would have thought? i did. we did, bob. we did. got it. this is an outrage. we are killing each other. and we're the only industrialized country in the world doing it.

>> new york mayor michael bloombe bloomberg, earlier today, leading the charge on gun control. and over the weekend, bloomberg challenged the notion that pushing for tougher laws is impossible, giving the influence of the nra. >> but, today, the nra's power is so vastly overrated. the public, when you do the polls, they want to stop this carnage. >> today, the mayor echoed those sediments calling out elected officials on both sides. >> this is not a partisan issue. this is just a bunch of people who i think are cowed by the nra. and as i said yesterday, if you think the nra has power, just remember, the number one priority was to defeat barack obama. last time i checked, he's going to be innaug rated again. >> earlier protesters gathered outside the offices in washington. the nra, again, declined to comment. the group's social media interaction has come to a halt. the nra had stopped tweeting. and it also took down its facebook page on friday, just

one day after it celebrated a milestone of 1.7 million likes. there are signs that the nra might be losing a script on washington. in,ra memg ber and senator joe manchin now says he's rethinking his positions on gun control. but as dave weigal points out, the nra habit lost any gun legislation since 1999. the five republicans who voted aye are all gone and al gore's tie breaking aye became a focus of the nra's campaign against him. and just somedays before the slaughter at sandy hook elementary, the nra was actively fear mongering over gun laws. an nra spokesman told the washington examiner on december 5th that the organization was preparing to battle with the president. we're not optimistic. we're planning for the worst. we've told people to plan for gun bans and a supreme court

stacked with anti-gun judges. the president has a variety of om options and a disposal we don't take any of them for granted. let's turn to mark glaze. he's director of mayors against illegal guns. >> is this a history-making moment with firearms in this country. >> it absolutely is. to me, it feels like us who are at the oklahoma city bombing. where things have gotten so bad that you had this explosively terrible moment that people just reev reevaluated. today, we had celebrities, tech leaders, thousands of new supporters come across. that doesn't happen every day and it doesn't happen at every mass shooting. >> it sounds like there's a coalition coming together. elected officials with the mayor's organization. tech leaders that yud're talking about. ground swell support from people across america who are afraid and have just had enough. but the nra, mayor bloomberg

says that their influence is vastly overed. there are people who disagree with that. >> if you sit down and did an analysis, what they do is overwhelmingly endorse incumbents who are going to win anyway. they spread a lot of money very thin across few people. and people on our side don't really get involved in politics. as a result, that i had're the only game in town. but just look at this last election. the nra only put more than a hundred thousand dollars in the seven senate races, six of them lost. >> in rural america, for instance, in the wisconsin recall that we'll talk about later, they depiblgted scott walker as a guy who was going to grab all guns. it has an e feblgt on rural

americans, don't you think? >> i think that gumpb issues is one of the things that people use to pay democrats in particular as being too liberal. but it's just one of a lot of things. tom barrett, who ran in that race who happens to be a member of our coalition was not talking about guns in that race. that's not the reason he lost. there are other reasons he lost, we regret. we have 750 mayors in this coalition who understand if you do the right thing, the politics will take care of themselves. they run and they win. >> what do they hope to achieve? and what kind of gun legislation do the mayors want? >> there are three big fixes that you can make. first thing is -- few people know this, only 60%, maybe even fewer, get a background check. >> that's because of the gun show. 40% of the sales are at gun shows. >> now it's even broader. it used to be the gun show,but that was really before the internet. and now a huge and growing share

of the private sales that take place in this country are online where there is no background check, no record of the transaction and no questions asked. so you should require a background check for all gun sales. second thing you should do is take a very serious look at whether we can craft an assault weapons ban and a limit on high-can passty magazines that cause i nenormous amounts of mayhem. you should find a way to do that seriously. third thing is, believe it or not, there is no federal statute that makes gun trafficking a crime. and if i go in straw by a gun, sell it to a mexican drug cartel, the penalties for that are the same as trafficking chickens. >> so all of the mayors are on board with these three things? >> we had a conference call with our mayors tonight which we don't do every week because we're busy people. we've had hundreds of mayors from across the country join us.

we've had the mayors of tucson of munci indiana, mayors in ohio call to join us because they hear about what we're doing. they've had enough. whether we're republican or d democr democrat, they understand the politics are right. the people have just reached a point where it's beyond time to act. >> all right, mark blaze with us tonight. the divide between urban and rural america is never greater than on guns. john nerks nichols joins me next. republicans are hitting the same nra talking points. stay with us. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro. ♪ ooh baby, can i do for you today? ♪ [ female announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance? align can help. only align has bifantis, a patented probiotic that naturally helps maintain your digestive balance. try align to help retain a balanced digestive system.

try the #1 gastroenterologist recommended probiotic.

welcome back to "the ed show." thanks for watching tonight. whether we want to believe it or not, there is a divide between urban unrule in this country. gun control is still the biggest sticking point, i think. and if you think about it, it's possible for a democrat to be elected in the united states senate in a swing state. even if he or she supports some tax increases, is pro-choice, and is for marriage equality. but it's a different story on guns. democrats are far more vulnerable on this issue, and the nra knows it. in the wisconsin recall election, here's what the nra did to mayor tom barrett.

>> this is your freedom. this is your freedom tom barrett gets your chance to recall the gun rights. >> freedom is the buzz word. nra was more than $17 million, according to our next guest, john nichols, about 6% was spent in support of americans. $11 million was spent against democrats. i'm joined tonight by john nichols. john, i don't want to overstate this. do you think that there is a divide in this country between urban and rural when it comes to the gun culture? >> this divide and how it's talk about and there's a divide in how it's thought about it. . it's not one that can't be left, but it's one that president obama and supporters of gun control have to understand. and they have to take lessons from some of the political figures who have figured out how

to leap over it. it's not that hard. what you do have to understand is that people in rural america aumpb grew up around guns. i did. i come from a very small town. my grandfather was a gun collector. he and i made shells in the basement. we went skeet shooting together. so the bottom line is i grew up in a culture where i saw guns respected, enjoyed, treated well. and i think the key thing is that a lot of the political players who favor gun control, sometimes act as if rural folks aren't rational about this. don't really understand where they're at. that's not the way to come at it. the way to come at it is the way that bernie sanders and some others have. >> well, the technology and the manufacturing and what these guns can do now in society is far different from 20 years ago. we're living in almost a different set of rules, yet there's that second amendment

sitting right there that they cling onto and they won't move, which makes it politically dangerous to come up with any kind of gun legislation. where is this all going? >> well, the thing is that there has to be a message to rural folks and to gun owners across the country. look, we understand that you may be a hunter, you may be a gun collector, you may have just grown up in a family where guns are always a part of your life. you can continue to do that, the second amendment will protect you on that. but you need to separate yourself from these maniacs who are running around with automatic weapons and walking into theaters and into schools. you need to have a certain self respect and say, look, my gun rights, my gun engagement, if you will, is completely different there these maniacs. as a result, we need to say to these folks you can be on the

side of sensible gun control and still not only protect your guns but also protect the culture that you regard highly. you can be a progressive and speak to these communities. west virginia is the state that was really the symbol. and remember, joe manchin, when he was running for this u.s. senate seat, cut an ad in which he was shooting at a target. the bottom line is that him taking this stand is good evidence of just how much this issue has begun to shift and the potential that president obama has to talk about it to rural americans. >> all right, john nichols,

great to have you with us tonight, john. there's a lot more coming up in the next half hour of "the ed show" stay with us. >> the principal lunging, trying to protect. chris, i wish to god she would have had an m-4 in her office locked up. >> in the wake of sandy hook, the rightties double down on gun lobby talking points. alex wagner and jonathan alder on the republican opposition to gun laws. what role does this country need to play to curb the violence. dr. gale salts is here with answers. and the club for growth is mad at john boehner, you know it's good news for democrats. the latest on fiscal negotiations is ahead. can help with your questions. and your loved one can get exelon patch free for 30 days. if the doctor feels it's right for them.

it cannot change how the disease progresses. hospitalization and rarely death have been reported in patients who wore more than one patch at a time. the most common side effects of exelon patch are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. the likelihood and severity of these side effects may increase as the dose increases. patients may experience loss of appetite or weight. patients who weigh less than 110 pounds may experience more side effects. people at risk for stomach ulcers who take certain other medicines should talk to their doctor because serious stomach problems such as bleeding may worsen. patients may experience slow heart rate. thirty days of exelon patch free for your loved one. access to trained nurses for you. call 1-855-999-1399 or visit exelonpatchoffer2.com. the red cross was down here all the time. [ man ] they've given us a lot of heart. in times of need, they're there. ♪ [ kerry ] my dad was watching his house burn.

he turned around, and all of a sudden, there was this guy standing there from the red cross. at a point where i had just lost everything, the idea that there was someone there... that's an amazing thing. ♪ [ "the odd couple" theme playing ] humans. even when we cross our "t"s and dot our "i"s, we still run into problems -- mainly other humans. at liberty mutual insurance, we understand. that's why our auto policies come with accident forgiveness if you qualify, where your rates won't go up due to your first accident, and new car replacement, where if you total your new car, we give you the money for a new one. call... to talk to an insurance expert about everything else that comes standard with our base auto policy. [ tires squeal ] and if you get into an accident and use one of our certified repair shops,

your repairs are guaranteed for life. call... to switch, and you could save hundreds. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy?

social security. welcome back to "the ed show." every time a horrific event takes place, their main argument is arm more civilians. that will stop mass shootings. so, now, after the sandy hook shooting, republicans are calling for guns, guns in schools. look no further than your sunday talk shows. >> i'm not so sure, and i'm sure i'll get mail from this, i'm not so sure i wouldn't want one person in a school armed. ready for this kind of thing. the principal lunged at this guy. the school psychologist lunged at the guy. it has to be someone who's trained. it has to be someone who's responsible. but, my god, if you can prevent this kind of thing -- >> texas congressman louis gomer took it a step further. he said the principal of the school should have had an m-4 assault rifle. >> and hearing the heroic sto

stories of the principal lunging, trying to preblgt, i wish to god she had an m-4. she didn't have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands but she takings him out and takes his head off. >> just what teachers are trained to do. g gomer is known for his absurd statements. but armed civilians don't stop shootings from happening. the american people, i think, are sick of it. let's turn to alex wagner, host of now with alex wagner here at msnbc and jonathan walter, analyst and columnist for bloomberg view. every time something happens with firearms in this country, we hear the same old tired talking points coming out from

conservatives from the right supplied by the nra. is this time different? >> i do think this time is different i. i think you see a little bit of acknowledgment that this is a line in the sand. i think the army of the teacher's theory or the proposal is a new level of ridiculousness. can you imagine after the terrorist who had the explosives in his shoes, if we had said well every airline passenger should have explosive shoes so that we can combat it like that, it's ludicrous. i was speaking with john larson who is a congressman from connecticut. he said if that's what louis gomer thinks flies in texas, there needs to be change. but at the end of the day, there's so much resis tense. there is so much entrenched resistance to the notion around reason laws and guns and gun possession, that you're seeing an initial grasping at straws

which is to say anything but laws that are to make it less easy for people to get weapons. >> jonathan, has the facts that chirnl were involved in this disarmed those advocates who were out to make sure they protect guns at all costs? >> not necessarily. these folks are shameless. louis gomer and some of the others were saying after the aurora colorado shooting that if the people in that theater had been armed, maybe the mass murderer wouldn't have been able to kill those folks, including the couple of children in that theater. imagine if you would have had people firing wildly in a dark theater? there would have been more people who died in aurora. it's just a preposterous idea. i don't think they can be ultimately reasoned with. they can only be beaten at the polls in 2014 after a movement is built, a national movement. i think it's important for progressives and pro gun reform people to be smart about this. and so as a first step, i would

suggest retiring gun control and replacing it with every reference and for all of us to train ourselves to say over and over again in a disciplined way, we are talking about common sense gun safety. common sense gun safety. who can be against that? if we start to redefine the terms and build a movement, that will include a lot of local organizing by the same people who reelected barack obama and then this can start to make progress in a legislative way. >> some over the conservative side have played the religious card. here's mike huckabee blamie inie shooting on a lack of god in schools. >> we asked why there's violence in schools, but we've systematically removed god from our schools.

should we be so surprised that schools have become a place of carnage? we've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, acountability. that we're not just going to have to be accountable to the police if they catch us, but one day we stand before holy god and judgment. >> i would really like to see someone employ judaeo christian values. and i think this goes to -- you talked about this earlier in the show, ed, the notion of a cultural difference. and guns represent not just guns, but a whole way of life, i think, for a certain part of the country. and to some degree, the fear is understandable. there's a sensz it's slipping away from them. but to not actually examine the real problem, it's not just about mental health, values and video games. it's about the weapons. and to sort of -- to excise that from the conversation, is not only irresponsible, but it's not a way of -- there's no way for

the nation to heel unless you really look at this holistically. >> we just have to call out mike huckabee on this. this is really shameful. he's saying that those children wouldn't have died if there would have been prayer in the schools? and that the gunman had gone to the school withhe's saying? >> that's exactly what he's saying. he's saying if we had taken god out of the schools and it has affected society so much that now we have people who go around and shoolt t up schools. >> so how does he explain people going around shooting up churches? >> they will expand the boundaries of conversation to fit themselves. >> well, at a certain point, you know, not everybody can be taken seriously as, you know, there are gun advocates who deserve to be heard in this debate. but if somebody says something as obama scene as that, they how oldn't be taken seriously in any

public school. >> i'm just surprised that john mccain and lind sooe graham can be so out raged about the loss of public life, which is terrible, and, yet, they're very, very quiet on this. >> keep in mind, john mccain was the person who nominated sarah palin, and she's the one that coined the phrase, don't retreat, reload. >> thank you. breaking news in the fiscal cliff negotiations. president obama has made a counter offer to speaker john boehner. details next. stay with us.

and 06 of course, we love hearing from our viewers. in the aftermath of the sandy hook elementary school shooting, joy kennel suggests that maybe i could get a new government job taking away all guns. but that's not what i'm saying.

i would just think that the founding fathers could have foreseen automatic weapons coming down the pike. i doubt it. i don't think they were thinking about that when they wrote the second amendment. people change, times change. this is time for change and nobody's going to be grabbing your gun lobby. but we might want to make sure that you're not mentally ill before you get it. rap raptorsrule updates this antiquated amendment a.s.a.p. and shannon chaved says why can all of our constitutional rights be subjected to limits except for the ones conferred by the second amendment. we like that one, too. keep your thoughts coming on our facebook and twitter page. tonight, our survey, i asked you will you support any politician who doesn't support reasonable gun laws?

8% of you said yes. 92% of you said no. still to come, how can we take guns out of the hands of the mentally ill in this country. psychiatrist gail saltz on how mental health professionals can help curb gun violence. stay tuned. and it's so rich and creamy... is it really 100 calories? let me put you on webcan... ...lean roasted chicken... and a creamy broth mmm i can still see you. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. make a wish! i wish we could lie here forever. i wish this test drive was over, so we could head back to the dealership. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. test drive! but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get $0 down, $0 due at signing, $0 deposit, and $0 first month's payment on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com today.

five days later, i had a massive heart attack. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

and we are back. president obama has made a counter offer to house speaker john boehner to fiscal negotiations. president obama has now proposed $400,000 as the new dividing line on taxes, meaning tax rates would return to clinton-era rates for those making $400,000 a year. >> speaker boehner had proposed $1 million a year as the dividing line. the president asked for a total of $1.2 trillion of new tax revenue in his counter offer in exchange for 1$1.2 trillion in spending cuts. according to reuters, the

president has changed the way the cost of living adjustments are made. the president wants the debt limit extended for two years with periodic votes through a process proposed by senator mitch mckonl. speaker boehner met with the president at the white house again this morning and had previously offered a one-year extension to the debt limit in return for 1 trillion tlars in budget cuts. >> the offer was reportedly rejected in the white house. the senate will likely come back in the session the day after christmas. on another sad note, hawaii senator dan anhoy, a war hero and the longest-serving member of the senate. he had represented his state as a congressman on senator since

hawaii joined the union in 1959. president obama said tonight, tonight, our country has lost a true american hero. according to the senator's staff, his last word was aloha. coming up, in the aftermath of yet another tragedy, the mental health community needs to assess if it's doing everything it can to stop gun violence. or are they being asked to engage? psychiatrist gail saltz joins me for the discussion next. stay with us. people have doubts about taking aspirin for pain.

but they haven't experienced extra strength bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 95% of people who tried it agreed that it relieved their headache fast. visit fastreliefchallenge.com today for a special trial offer.

welcome back to "the ed show kwlts. as the president has talked about, there are a lot of facets that go into gun violence in this country. the mental hemt health community is going to have to play a major role if we're going to make changes and see violence go down in this country. making sure they don't have access to firearmings is a big deal. let's go to dr. gail saltz, a clinical psychiatrist. dr. saltz, thanks for being here tonight. >> my pleasure. >> this is something that the mental health community is going to need resources to do. if we're going to lean on the mental health kmoounty to be a part of gun control and gun violence in this country, take us down that road. what has to happen? >> well, really, i think the issue here is that some people, who will commit terribly violent crimes do suffer from mental illness. but they're not necessarily entering the system. so there's one out of 17 people

in this country who has a serious mental illness. less than a third of them come in for treatment. so that's a lot of people who ostensibly aren't allowed to purchase guns. but because they're never entered the system, there's no record of them. and therefore, they can. and that could be a risk. >> so in the mental health community, is this something that there could be a data base? >> absolutely. well, let me first say. many people who commit these crimes are not necessarily mentally ill. so will it solve the problem overall if we just ran around, you know, bring everybody into the system and diagnose it? no. however, would it cut down, potentially, on these violent crimes? i think it might. more over, a lot of people who really need treatment would get treatment. so there's no downside to the

need to bring the mental health care in this country up from being at the bottom of the barrel where it is. >> but, in the most recent shootings that we've seen, obviously, the perpetrators have had issues. had they had been in the mental health system, this could have been prevented. >> maybe, we don't know. the reality is that people who seem to be at risk for violent crimes have certain features. paranoia, depression, impulsivity. a history of breaking the law and substance abuse. we don't know if any of these things were involved at all. sometimes we won't be able to get everyone. sometimes it's possible that this person won't have done it anyway. mental health might not have been able to prevent it. however, had you been in the system, it's possible that the professional treating would have said to the mother you know what, he's really ill. you shouldn't have guns around your son. that is very possible.

>> someone wants to go in and buy a firearm, there could be a law that they have to go in and get mentally checked out. >> i could see that people will be disturbed and i could see it would be very difficult to pull off. what i think is probably more practical, if you will, is if people understood the signs and symptoms of mental illness, basically any emotional state, and brought them in to get treatment, to enter the system, those that would be dangerous would be dealt with appropriately. those who maybe don't appear dangerous, but shouldn't have a firearm would be told so. and their families would be told so. because, of course, in this case, he didn't buy the guns. his mother did. >> but you also run into the issue of seeing a doctor, having it covered, insurance issues, it's one domino after another. >> and this is the big problem. mental health care in 2012, between the stigma that still exists, between the lack of

priority, not onl for crisis management of mental health issues, but the idea of prevention is almost nonexistent. so with this combination, people are syruply not getting the care that they need? >> thank you for coming in tonight. and that is "the ed show." i'm ed shultz. good evening, rachel maddow. >> thank you for staying with us. we're going to have the latest on the aftermath and the continuing news out of newtown connecticut tonight as well as some other important politics, news that is not related to what happened in newtown. the brand new snat tor elect is chris murphy. the mayor of newark, new jersey is going to be joining us in just a moment. as is the police chief from oak creek wisconsin where that mass shooting occurred this past august. that is all coming up this hour. but, in order to understand one important element of the response to newtown, in order to try to get a handle on the range of possible outcomes here, as we

try to make decisions as a country as to whether we are going to change as a country because of this massacre and because of the national heartbreak it has caused, to try to get at that very big question, there is a very narrow discussion to be had about a piece of new technology. this is something called a 3d printer. anybody can become a small-scale manufacturer of anything. all you have to do is down load a computer file or create a computer file that has the specifications for the shape of a thing that you would like to build. you do have a limited range of the material that your 3d printer can make something out of, that you have programmed it to make. but you can create a physical, three dimensional object that with something that is the equivalent of a printer. these things cost a few thousand bucks, but it is a relatively